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Jenn (she/they) and Chavonne (she/her) are a HAES®-aligned dietitian and therapist, respectively, who are passionate about dismantling the intersectional barriers to embodiment within the context of the matrix of domination. In this show, they interview professionals and those with lived experience alike to learn how they are affecting radical change and how we can all make this world a safer place for those living in larger bodies and in marginalized spaces. EFTROU is currently publishing season 4 every month on the first Thursdays of each month through April 2025.
Episodes
Thursday Nov 11, 2021
Thursday Nov 11, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us - Season 1, Episode 6: Tiana Dodson
Chavonne (she/her) and Jenn (she/her) interviewed Tiana Dodson (she/her) about her embodiment journey.
Tiana Dodson is a fat, Body Liberation Coach and Facilitator who’s out to destroy the belief that you have to be skinny to be happy and healthy, loveable, or worthy. Through her work with the Fat Freedom programs, she guides people feminine-of-center to reconnect with their bodies, destigmatize fatness, and learn about the harms of health being a measure of worth... all while finding how they can live their best fat lives.
Links:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamtianadodson/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tianathecoach/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/iamtianadodson
Fat Freedom Foundation, introductory support community for body liberation: https://tianadodson.com/becomefff
Fat Freedom Moments, text message subscription service for a moment of Body Liberation in a Day Full of Diet Culture Nonsense: https://tianadodson.com/ffmoments
Content Warning: discussion of privilege, discussion of diet culture, mention of war and colonialism, mention of ableism, mention of neurodiversity barriers, mention of abusive relationships, mention of cults
Trigger Warnings:
41:33-52:23: A discussion of fatphobia in airplane travel
49:36: Tiana uses the word “crazy” to emphasize how the word has been weaponized against women and femmes and/or those with mental health diagnoses
52:57: Jenn discusses wheelchairs damaged on flights (and Jenn repairs in the moment at 51:42!)
55:33: Tiana discusses Hitler and the lack of self-awareness of those demanding conformity to dominance
1:23:13: Chavonne discusses Overeaters Anonymous
The captions for this episode can be found at https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-1/season-1-episode-6-tiana-dodson/#captions
A few highlights:
4:28: Tiana shares her understanding of embodiment and her own embodiment journey
59:14: Tiana discusses her understanding of “the rest of us” and how she is a part of that, as well as her privileges
1:25:13: Tiana discusses where HAES® and IE fall short
1:40:33: Tiana discusses the “safety of sovereignty”
1:48:22: Tiana shares how listeners can make a difference based on this conversation
1:50:23: Tiana shares how to be found and what’s next for her
Links from this episode:
Audre Lorde’s Quote about A Single-Issue Life
Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness
Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia
Wheelchairs Being Broken on Flights
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
Please follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus
Thursday Oct 28, 2021
Thursday Oct 28, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us - Season 1, Episode 5: Nicola Haggett
Chavonne (she/her) and Jenn (she/her) interviewed Nicola Haggett (she/her) about her embodiment journey. To learn more about her work, follow her on instagram under the handle @nicolahaggett or find her on her website, www.nicolahaggett.com.
Nicola Haggett is a Body Trust Coach, Mentor, & Facilitator. She helps folks to unlearn body shame, rebuild self trust, and have a more compassionate, connected, and nourishing relationship with their "here and now" body. Nicola is a professionally trained, experienced and compassionately curious Coach, Certified Body Trust® Provider, Intuitive Eating Facilitator, and Open Heart Project Meditation Instructor.
She describes herself as fat (a word she has reclaimed as a neutral descriptor for her body) and her lived experience as a fat person are an important part of what she brings to her work. Nicola believes that it's possible to nourish, care for, and build trust with your body, despite living in a culture that tells you that you need to shrink to fit in. She sees clients online from her home in East London, where she lives with her husband, Ricky, and their two kids.
Content Warning: discussion of privilege, mention of ableism, mention of neurodiversity barriers
Trigger Warnings:
14:39: Nicola discusses her experience of medical fatphobia during her pregnancies
18:37: Chavonne discusses her experience of medical fatphobia during her pregnancies
24:30: Jenn discusses wheelchairs damaged on flights
The captions for this episode can be found at
https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-1/season-1-episode-5-nicola-haggett/#captions
A few highlights:
4:40: Nicola shares her understanding of embodiment and her own embodiment journey
14:39 Nicola shares her experience of medical fatphobia during her pregnancies
29:27: Nicola discusses her understanding of “the rest of us” and how she is a part of that, as well as her privileges
31:34: Nicola shares her daily embodiment practice and her take on the word “resilience”
Addendum: From Nicola: “I talk about my recent diagnosis with ADHD, and at a couple of points I refer to my kids' neurodiversity also. As I read more about what this means for both of us I have learned to use the word neurodivergence instead.”
1:04:57: Chavonne repairs with Nicola in the moment
1:07:34: Nicola discusses body stories and their intersections that come up with body justice and fat liberation
Addendum: Nicola credits Hilary Kivaney and Dana Sturtevant of BeNourished, who shared some of the questions as part of her Body Trust Provider training
1:17:45: Nicola discusses how trusting our bodies is the opposite of the search for a cure or purification
Addendum: Nicola wants to name that she is learning from Disability Justice and particularly Eli Clare's work
1:31:10: Nicola discusses how perfectionism benefits from our shame
Addendum: Nicola credits Tema Okun’s work in this regard and also credits Desiree Adaway, who first introduced her to the article below about white supremacy culture when she did Freedom School a few years ago
1:35:51: Nicola shares how listeners can make a difference based on this conversation
1:39:29: Nicola shares how to be found and what’s next for her
Links from this episode:
The Body Is Not An Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor
“Geriatric” Pregnancy Data from the 18th Century (1700s)
"The Needy Podcast” episode with Nicola (CW: discusses medical fatphobia in pregnancy)
Niva Piran and the Developmental Theory of Embodiment
Wheelchairs Being Broken on Flights
White Supremacy Culture Characteristics
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
Please follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus
Thursday Oct 14, 2021
Thursday Oct 14, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us - Season 1, Episode 4: Alishia McCullough
It’s the first interview! Woohoo! Chavonne (she/her) and Jenn (she/her) interviewed Alishia McCullough (she/her) about her embodiment journey. To learn more about her work, feel free to connect with her on social media under the handle @blackandembodied.
Alishia McCullough is a millennial Licensed Clinical Mental Health Therapist currently residing in the DMV. She is also an independently published author of the book Blossoming. Alishia is passionate about racial healing, and anti-colonialism within eating disorders. She is motivated to increase access and create spaces for Black, Indigenous and People of the Global Majority to come together and heal in ways that inspire holistic wellness and liberation focused healing. Outside of her clinical work, she is a Co-Founder of the AmplifyMelanatedVoices Movement and the Founder of The Holistic Black Healing Collective. Her work has been featured by Target, Bustle, Popsugar, LA Times, and Forbes.
Content Warning: discussion of privilege, mention of ableism
Trigger Warnings:
53:20: Jenn discusses the history of slavery on Turtle Island
53:54: Jenn discusses mass graves in North American residential schools
1:24:26: Alishia discusses experimentation on and exploitation of Black people
The captions for this episode can be found at
https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-1/season-1-episode-4-alishia-mccullough/#captions
A few highlights:
4:22: Alishia shares her understanding of embodiment and her own embodiment journey
11:08: Alishia discusses how her IG presence came to be
13:31: Alishia discusses starting the #AmplifyMelanatedVoices Movement with Jessica Wilson
21:07: Alishia discusses her understanding of “the rest of us” and how she is a part of that, as well as her privileges
38:52: Alishia discusses how unchecked privilege from providers can cause harm
45:20: Alishia discusses how using BI&POC rather than BIPOC has changed her work
56:21: Correction: The activist discussed is Gloria Richardson and not Akeelah Richardson.
57:50: Alishia shares wise words to young people on how to support their embodied practices
1:06:47: Alishia discusses embodiment and religion
1:18:23: Alishia discusses how helping professionals can center the people they serve when working with them
1:24:51: Correction: The woman discussed is Sarah Baartman and not Sarah Barton.
1:28:31: Alishia shares how listeners can make a difference based on this conversation
Links from this episode:
Amplify Melanated Voices Movement
“Food Is Not The Enemy” Article
Mass Graves of North American Indigenous Residential Schools
Quote about Identity from Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s Novel “Half of a Yellow Sun”
Religious Trauma, White Supremacy, & Eating Disorders Online Panel
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
Please follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus
Thursday Sep 30, 2021
Thursday Sep 30, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us - Season 1, Episode 3: Embodiment + The Rest of Us
In this episode, Chavonne (she/her) and Jenn (she/her) discuss their definitions of “embodiment” and “the rest of us”.
Content Warning: discussion of privilege, mention of ableism
The captions for this episode can be found at
https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-1/season-1-episode-3-embodiment-rest-of-us/#captions
A few highlights:
2:29: Jenn shares her understanding of embodiment
5:37: Note: Credit to Lara Minges for the definition of embodiment being accessible for anyone who has breath and a shadow
12:46: Chavonne shares her understanding of embodiment
15:06: Correction: The collective mentioned is called Open Floor International. It is a movement collective and not solely a yoga collective.
26:04: Jenn shares her understanding of “the rest of us”
39:47: Chavonne shares her understanding of “the rest of us”
51:23: Jenn shares how she wants to make a difference from this conversation
1:01:00: Chavonne shares how she wants to make a difference from this conversation
Links from this episode:
Niva Piran and the Developmental Theory of Embodiment
Othering and Belonging Journal
Rachel Cargle’s IG post about manifesting
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
Please follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus
Thursday Sep 16, 2021
Thursday Sep 16, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us: Season 1 , Episode 2: Co-Host Embodiment Journeys
In this episode, Jenn (she/her) and Chavonne (she/her) discuss their personal journeys of embodiment.
Content Warning: discussion of privilege, mention of eating disorders and disordered eating, mention of mental health struggles, mention of unintentional weight loss, mention of substance use, mention of neurodiversity barriers
Trigger warnings:
5:09-8:37: Chavonne discusses her history with Overeaters Anonymous
10:27-11:45: Chavonne discusses her pregnancy weight loss
22:41-25:00: Jenn discusses being sexually assaulted and her subsequent changed relationship with food
26:17-28:53: Jenn discusses binging and restricting behaviors with food, alcohol use, and her history with alcohol use
35:08-35:26: Jenn discusses an experience with medical fatphobia
48:17-50:01: Chavonne discusses being sexually assaulted and her subsequent changed relationship with food
50:05-53:00: Jenn discusses stopping drinking and how it affected her sexuality and embodiment
The captions for this episode can be found at
A few highlights:
3:49: Chavonne shares her embodiment journey
19:18: Jenn shares her embodiment journey
29:40: Jenn discusses how public health creates harm
Links from this episode:
Pima-Maricopa Tribe (CW: this link contains mention of the “o” words)
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
Please follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus
Thursday Aug 26, 2021
Thursday Aug 26, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us - Season 1, Episode 1: Co-Host Interviews
In this episode, Chavonne (she/her) and Jenn (she/her) interview one another in order to introduce themselves to the audience!
Content Warning: discussion of privilege, mention of eating disorders, mention of mental health concerns
The captions for this episode can be found at
https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-1/season-1-episode-1-co-host-interviews/#captions
A few highlights:
2:29: Chavonne introduces herself
3:33: Correction: Chavonne has been a licensed clinical social worker since 2013
3:47: Correction: Chavonne says “making food with peace” when she meant “peace with food”
5:41: Jenn introduces herself
14:48: How Chavonne came up with this podcast
21:16: Why Jenn wanted to do this podcast, too
30:48 Correction: Jenn did not come up with this idea about HAES® being inside the Medical Industrial Complex, it came from Da’Shaun Harrison. Jenn also mispronounced their name. See link to Twitter thread below!
36:35: What “embodiment” and “the rest of us” mean to us
Links from this episode:
Da'Shaun Harrison's Twitter Thread: HAES®
Nothing About Us Without Us: Disability Oppression and Empowerment
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
Make sure to follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus
Thursday Jun 24, 2021
Thursday Jun 24, 2021
Embodiment for the Rest of Us Trailer: Season 1
Embodiment for the Rest of Us premieres August 2021! Meet your hosts, Chavonne McClay (she/her) and Jenn Jackson (she/her), and learn what EFTROU will be all about.
Music: “Wheel of Karma” by Jason Shaw
The captions for this episode can be found at: https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-1/season-1-trailer/#captions
Captions
[Music Plays]
Chavonne (C): Hi, I’m Chavonne McClay.
Jenn (J): And I’m Jenn Jackson.
C: And this is Embodiment For The Rest of Us! Yay!
J: [squeals]
C: I’m so excited. [laughs]
J: We are.
C: I am a Black, fat woman and have been a Licensed Clinical Social Worker since 2010 and I’m really, really excited about this podcast. I have a private mental health practice called Unabridged Counseling and Coaching, LLC, and I live in Albuquerque, NM, on occupied Tiwa territory with my family, my husband and two kids. I--my clinical work focuses on healing relationships with food and your body and yourself as well as parental mental health. I--in all the work that I do, I make sure to center and hold space for those living in marginalized bodies and in marginalized spaces.
J: And I'm Jennifer “Jenn” Jackson. Call me Jenni, call me Jenn Jenn, call me anything you like, umm, this is just what I usually go by. I'm a Registered Dietitian and Nutritionist and Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor in Albuquerque, NM, on occupied Tiwa territory. I’m a provider in a white, fat body with ADHD and I have lived experience with diabetes as an adult. These connections that I've just mentioned inform my practice, Jenni K Nutrition LLC. Umm, and all the services that are offered, that I offer, are anti-oppressive, which includes, but is not limited to, anti-racist, fat positive, Health At Every Size®-aligned, queer-affirming, non-diet, nutritionally agnostic and food neutral, sex-positive, trauma-sensitive, from a neurodiversity approach, and both justice- and liberation-driven.
C: “Embodiment for the Rest of Us” is the name of this podcast, as we said before. We’d like to define what those two ideas mean to us. So, “embodiment” is the validation of the experience of every individual both within themselves and within the world. When we talk about “the rest of us", we are talking about those living in larger bodies and in marginalized spaces or are likewise blocked from defining their own existence.
J: Ooh, that’s good. And where can you find this podcast, “Embodiment For The Rest Of Us”? And that would be anywhere, everywhere, wherever you find your podcasts.
C: And our podcast will be ready for listening in late summer 2021 in August, which is really exciting!
J: [gasps] So exciting!
C: Yes!
J: It’s June right now as we’re recording this, so that’s not far off.
C: Yes.
J: And we’re about to start interviewing really soon and we are really excited.
C: Mm-hmm. Yes!
J: So why this topic, this podcast? We both listen to a lot of podcasts and we love really specific conversations about really similar topic happening sometimes on other podcasts, and what we're looking for is a discussion where this is happening all the time. So here we are making a podcast that’s by us, but also for us.
C: Yeah, kind of a one-stop shop.
J: Having the conversations we want to have. Umm, and we’re really excited! We’re going to say we’re excited a lot. And we also are really excited.
C: So much. We are. [laughs] Umm, how will this podcast progress? So, We will be interviewing professionals and those with lived experiences about these intersecting topics. It is also very important to us that this is an interaction with you, the listener! We are excited to be in active conversation with you, as we learn and unlearn.
J: Oh, and we cannot wait to be in conversation with you in August 2021!
[Music plays]
Make sure to follow us on social media:
Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com
Twitter: @embodimentus
Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus